N9w I realize that 6y even 6eginning t9 type this p9st, I am inviting a num6er 9f y9ur very predicta6le resp9nses, including 6ut n9t limited t9 accusati9ns 9f prudishness, jeal9usy, sexual repressi9n, anti-fun m9ralism, "n9t understanding the 6it," "n9t getting a g99d rating," and whatever pr9f9undly unhelpful little phrases y9u will inevita6ly c9nstruct fr9m the w9rds 6ulge, 69undary, and 6ureaucracy, 6ut at the risk 9f making myself 6riefly useful in a space which appears increasingly determined t9 c9nvert every pu6lic square int9 a lightly m9derated place 9f curati9n, I w9uld like t9 discuss @6ulgeCurat9r. #6ulgeRatingMenti9n #69undary6ureaucracyMenti9n #N9tPrudishness #PleaseActuallyRead T9 6e clear, 6ecause if I am n9t clear s9me9ne will take the smallest p9ssi6le interpretati9n 9f my statement and wear it ar9und like a vict9ry sash, I am n9t saying that adults, 9r adult-adjacent resurrected parad9x pers9ns, 9r any9ne else wh9se 9nt9l9gical status makes age disc9urse int9 an immediate migraine, sh9uld 6e f9r6idden fr9m discussing sexuality, desira6ility, anat9my, presentati9n, flirtati9n, 9r the many alarming s9cial rituals 6y which pe9ple indicate they w9uld like t9 6e l99ked at in a specific way 6y specific parties. #SexualityMenti9n #AdultAdjacentMenti9n #9nt9l9gicalStatusMenti9n #C9nsentMenti9n I am saying that perhaps, perhaps, p9ssi6ly, it is w9rth examining what it means when a tr9ll 6uilds a rec9gniza6le pu6lic identity ar9und assigning evaluative c9mmentary t9 9ther pe9ple's m9st private physical 9r semi-physical attri6utes, especially when the c9mmentary is dressed in the language 9f critique, sp9rt, taste, expertise, and c9mmunity entertainment, all 9f which can make the pers9n 6eing rated feel as th9ugh they have n9t merely displayed themselves, 6ut have su6mitted their anat9my t9 a c9urt wh9se judge is n9velty and hungry. #Evaluati9nMenti9n #Pu6licIdentity #ExpertiseMenti9n #N9veltyJudgeMenti9n And yes, I understand that all participants actively su6mit themselves t9 this. #C9nsentAckn9wledged That is relevant. It is imp9rtant. It is n9t sufficient t9 end the c9nversati9n f9rever, 6ecause c9nsent t9 9ne interacti9n d9es n9t erase the 6r9ader s9cial atm9sphere created 6y repeated pu6lic sc9ring, c9mmunal gawking, c9mparative ranking, cele6rat9ry humiliati9n, and the quiet little hierarchy that 6egins t9 f9rm when every9ne starts kn9wing wh9 received praise, wh9 received pity, wh9 received a devastating paragraph, and wh9 was apparently s9 underwhelming that the audience learned a new euphemism f9r disapp9intment. #C9nsentIsRelevant #C9nsentIsN9tMagic #RankingMenti9n #Humiliati9nMenti9n #Disapp9intmentMenti9n Vesica, I am n9t accusing y9u 9f malice, 6ecause I d9 n9t think every harmful structure ann9unces itself 6y laughing villain9usly 9n a 6alc9ny. S9me 9f them simply p9st c9nsistently, gain a f9ll9wing, create a genre, and then act surprised when the genre 6egins shaping h9w 9thers present themselves, j9ke a69ut themselves, s9licit attenti9n, and measure their 9wn w9rth against an invented standard with a catchy tag. #MaliceMenti9n #GenreF9rmati9n #InventedStandards #6alc9nyMenti9n This is, if anything, the danger 9f curati9n. A curat9r d9es n9t need t9 physically f9rce any9ne int9 a gallery f9r the gallery t9 alter what kind 9f art pe9ple 6egin making. #Curati9nMenti9n #GalleryMetaph9r #PleaseSitWithThat 6ef9re any9ne says "just d9 n9t su6mit," which is, 9f c9urse, the great useless sentence 9f every pu6lic envir9nment, I w9uld just like t9 remind every9ne that n9t participating in a spectacle d9es n9t mean 9ne is unaffected 6y the spectacle. #JustD9N9tSu6mitMenti9n #SpectacleMenti9n #C9mmunityEffects There is als9, and I kn9w this will make several pe9ple sigh s9 l9udly they damage near6y glassware, a caste dimensi9n t9 this. There is always a caste dimensi9n. Wh9 feels safe making a j9ke su6missi9n. Wh9 feels pressured t9 6e impressive. Wh9 has the s9cial arm9r t9 survive a p99r rating. Wh9 can turn m9ckery int9 flirtati9n. Wh9 is expected t9 6e large, p9tent, 9rnamental, m9nstr9us, delicate, shameful, ex9tic, pitia6le, 9r “surprisingly accepta6le,” which is a phrase I am preemptively 6anning fr9m my 9wn m9uth 6ecause even imagining it has made me tired. #CasteDimensi9n #S9cialArm9r #69dyExpectati9nMenti9n #GlasswareMenti9n And then there is the disa6ility dimensi9n, the trauma dimensi9n, the gender presentati9n dimensi9n, the species variati9n dimensi9n, the mutant 69dy dimensi9n, the resurrected-69dy-is-this-even-my-9riginal-69dy dimensi9n, and the frankly underdiscussed matter 9f h9w many 9f y9u appear t9 6e using flirtati9us pu6lic degradati9n as a su6stitute f9r therapy. #Disa6ilityMenti9n #TraumaMenti9n #GenderPresentati9n #Mutant69dyMenti9n N9ne 9f this means Vesica must 6e chased int9 the sea with a 6r99m. Please d9 n9t d9 that. I am n9t calling f9r harassment, 6eastpiling, c9unter-rating, par9dy acc9unts, an9nym9us threats, 9r the s9rt 9f c9rrective cruelty that all9ws every9ne t9 feel virtu9us while 6ehaving exactly like the thing they claim t9 9pp9se. #N9Harassment #N96eastpiling #C9rrectiveCrueltyMenti9n #6r99mMenti9n I am asking whether we can, f9r 9ne single miracul9us m9ment, h9ld tw9 th9ughts in the same r99m with9ut making them fight t9 the death: that Vesica’s c9ntent may 6e c9nsensual, funny, p9pular, and pers9nally meaningful t9 the pe9ple inv9lved, and that it may als9 reinf9rce s9me deeply unpleasant ha6its ar9und 69dies, desira6ility, pu6lic shame, and the idea that 6eing perceived is 9nly safe when s9me9ne entertaining has agreed t9 translate y9ur flesh int9 a sc9re. #Tw9Th9ughts #NuanceMenti9n #Pu6licShame #6eingPerceivedMenti9n S9 perhaps the next time s9me9ne su6mits t9 a rating, 9r cheers 9ne 9n, 9r 6egs t9 6e destr9yed in the c9mments in a way that is definitely “a j9ke” and definitely “fine,” every9ne might pause f9r just l9ng en9ugh t9 ask whether the j9ke is serving them, 9r whether they have simply 6ec9me very g99d at dec9rating the cage. #PausePlease #J9keMenti9n #CageMetaph9r #PleaseReflect That is all. F9r n9w. #6ulgeCurat9rMenti9n #Pr96lematicC9ntent #N9tKinkShaming #ActuallyItIsC9mplicated #D9N9tMakeMeRegretP9stingThis #NSFW #6yPr9xy
OBJECTION! you make some well-argued points, though i think you're not accounting for the fact that as vesica curates more bulged publicly, the experience of being rated becomes more understood by virtue of having more data points, & at this point the submitter can be understood to be giving *informed* consent to the entailing aspects of degradation, public mockery, etc. SIDEBAR! & vesica is literally nice
Hell9 Trycks. #Greeting #FirstName6asis While I appreciate y9ur framing, and I will ackn9wledge that repeated pu6lic examples 9f Vesica's ratings d9 create a s9mewhat clear expectati9n 9f what a su6mitter is c9nsenting t9, I w9uld gently 96ject t9 the idea that "m9re data p9ints" aut9matically pr9duces inf9rmed c9nsent in any meaningful ethical sense, 6ecause a pers9n can a6s9lutely kn9w the f9rmat, kn9w the j9kes, kn9w the risks, kn9w the p9ssi6ility 9f m9ckery, and still 6e su6mitting under the pressure 9f a c9mmunity atm9sphere where 6eing seen, rated, degraded, praised, 9r pu6licly anat9mized has 6ec9me a kind 9f s9cial value, which means the c9nsent may 6e real with9ut 6eing unc9mplicated, and 6ef9re y9u side6ar me int9 "Vesica is literally nice,", yes, Vesica may 6e nice, Vesica may 6e pers9nally gentle, Vesica may hand-feed gru6s s9up while ap9l9gizing t9 the sp99n f9r all I kn9w, 6ut niceness is n9t a s9lvent y9u p9ur 9ver a s9cial structure if y9u want t9 diss9lve p9wer dynamics. #96jecti9nAckn9wledged #Inf9rmedC9nsentMenti9n #DataP9intsMenti9n #NicenessIsN9tAS9lvent #Side6ar9verruled
RE: HELLO TRYCKS! hello, kankri! RESPONSE ON THOSE GROUNDS! oh, okay then, i don't really want to dissolve power dynamics.
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Gamzee, first, thank y9u f9r c9ntinuing t9 engage with my p9sts in a way that suggests y9u actually read them, which I mean sincerely, n9t as s9me patr9nizing little g9ld star. A large p9rti9n 9f Chittr appears t9 treat reading as an 9pti9nal ritual perf9rmed 9nly after the argument has already started, s9 I d9 appreciate the eff9rt. #C9ntinuedEngagementMenti9n #ReadingC9mprehensi9n #Appreciati9n I als9 think y9u are right that Vesica’s w9rk has an earnestness t9 it, and that it is n9t merely an empty sexual punchline. Where I still disagree is 9n the matter 9f 6lame. I am n9t 6laming c99l6l99ds f9r 6eing desired, 9r f9r hatching int9 69dies that 9ther pe9ple reward. I am saying that desire d9es n9t 6ec9me harmless just 6ecause n9 single pers9n ch9se the c9nditi9ns ar9und it. Vesica can 6e kind, the su6mitters can 6e c9nsenting, and the wh9le practice can still deserve scrutiny. Als9 yes, #6r99mMenti9n was intenti9nally a6surd, and “f9r n9w” was n9t a threat, th9ugh I c9ncede this we6site makes alm9st every cl9sing remark s9und like it is h9lding a knife 6ehind its 6ack. #VesicaMenti9n #C99l6l99dMenti9n #DesireMenti9n #C9nsentMenti9n #6r99mMenti9n #F9rN9wClarificati9n
wElL ... YeAh? On tHe rEaDiNg sItE ExPeCtInG FoLkS To rEaD SoMeThInG ShOuLdN'T Be lIkE SuCh a lOw bAr hOnK HoNk. SaId i lIkE KaNkS AnD MeAnT It (O: I'D LiKe sUgGeSt yOu jOiN ThE FuCkInG QuEuE FoR ThE FuN Of iT BuT KnOw tHaT AiN'T HaPpEnIn iN AnY ReAlItY. vErY FuCkInG InSiGhTfUl mAn, I FuCk wItH It. NoNe oF Us cHoSe tO Be hErE Or gOt a sAy iN ThE RuLeS Or eXpEcTaTiOnS LiKe fUcKiN ImPoSeD On uS. fUcKeD Up aS ThEy aRe )O: nOw i aM LiKe sUgGeStInG Ya jOiN ThE QuEuE, mIgHt lIkE Be a vAlUaBlE ExPeRiEnCe iN ItSeLf fR. nAh, MaKe iT A ThReAt mAn, LiL FeAr gOeS A LoNg wAy, TrUsT. (O: